Currently Hearing: Peregrine by The Appleseed Cast
Currently Reading: Deuteronomy
Currently Thinking: I Want to Wash My Sheets by The Sanitary Side of Me
Currently Knowing: Once I Wash Them, I Won't Want to Put Them Back On My Bed by the Lazy Side of Me
Well...
I was talking with someone today about free will, God's Sovereignty, predestination, and all that jazz...
I have a few things to say about it:
1.) It was great to talk about it with someone I love
2.) It was great to be open and honest without demeaning one another
3.) It was great to discuss and work on articulating my views by looking at contrary arguments/lines of thought
4.) It made me think of something...
Basically, the person I was discussing this idea with said something that really made me consider something - because, like most things about my faith (and I think this is the case for most people in general), I had just sort of accepted their position for most of my life without much critical thought or study (both biblical and extrabiblical in nature)...
Let's think about this concept - and I sincerely want help and/or comments on this idea...
Before one of my Bible classes was to discuss the idea of sin, I had 60-something 11th grade students write me a brief essay on whether or not humans can choose God on their own, or if God chooses us...
Roughly half of the kids said that God chooses us, and the other half said that we had free will to either choose or reject salvation...
Several of the students that claimed the free will argument made comments that sound something like this:
God gave us free will to choose on our own because He loves us and wouldn't force us to love Him.
In a similar vein, the person I was discussing these ideas with made the comment - Would you want to marry a bride that didn't choose to love you?
My question is, where does this idea/common argument for the role of human volition in God's salvific work come from? Does it have any Scriptural merit? It is a great and very comforting sort of idea sometimes saying that we have such freedom, but it really made me think about the importance of having an incredibly Scripturally-grounded theology...
I want everything I believe about my faith to be carefully weighed against Scripture, and if something that even is more appealing to me seems to contradict what I find to be true from a sound reading of the Word of God, I have to understand that I cannot merely choose to accept something that is easier for me to swallow...
So, what do you guys think?
Does God let us choose whether or not to be saved so He gets the cream of the crop?
Does the idea of predestination seem like a contradiction to your idea of God?
Does election seem unfair?
Do you think most Christians responsibly study and think about the things they believe and why they believe them?
Feel free to weigh in on anything that seems relevant to the discussion...
I would love to see some new comments...
One Member of the Body,
Brandon
Thursday, October 30, 2008
Half-Days: God's Gift to the Teacher
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8 comments:
It is so weird how so many basic beliefs of Christianity aren’t even scriptural. It is actually really scary! It’s not that Christians are walking around believing intense heresies but with some misunderstandings. For instance the end time narrative, heaven, and Jesus' teachings (no big deal right?). I’ve gotten to the point that when I find scripture that affirms some of my basic beliefs I am totally relieved that it’s true and biblical. That is sort of sad. For instance I have gained great confidence and clarity on the issue of speaking in tongues just by reading 1 Corinthians. It’s funny to me how much confusion there is in the Church and so often all we have to do is actually read the scripture and it will answer a lot of our questions a lot clearer than we expected. It is also just as sad how quickly Christians are to explain away scripture and Jesus’ words instead of taking them for what is actually being said. It is a scary task, and I would venture to say duty, for Christians to explore the scripture. As we have seen many of our peers endeavor to study the scripture only to loose their faith in the God that they were studying. We must have trust in Jesus that the Spirit will guide us into the truths and mysteries of God. Also I think that it is crucial to ask for peace and a heavy dose of faith while endeavoring to study the scripture.
I always hesitate to use single verses to prove a point outside of its context but these are two verses that are pretty clear. When I read them my first instinct is to say but… and then try to fit these verses into my current view on the issue. I do not believe that these verses are totally affirming all the doctrines of predestination (because there are many) or any single doctrine at that. But they are thought provoking at the least. I am completely lost when it comes to understanding the sovereignty of God and the free will of man. The mysteries of God are endless! May we seek God’s truth and not loose sight of what truly matters in that search. God be with us. Grace and peace to you.
"You did not choose Me but I chose you, and appointed you that you would go and bear fruit, and that your fruit would remain, so that whatever you ask of the Father in My name He may give to you." John 15:16
"And we know that God causes all things to work together for good to those who love God, to those who are called according to His purpose. For those whom He foreknew, He also predestined to become conformed to the image of His Son, so that He would be the firstborn among many brethren; and these whom He predestined, He also called; and these whom He called, He also justified; and these whom He justified, He also glorified." Rom. 8:28-30
p.s. come back to America now.I think God has predestined you to start Fuller in the winter term!
i was just having this sort of conversation last night. about the importance of having a sound theological foundation. this post is challenging because alot of times "christians" seem to have the answers or think they know it all, but really we don't have biblical backup for the things we say. in general, i think we find it easier to discuss the facets of our relationship with God and encounters with him rather than his teachings and the inspired words he lets us endeavor in. because that actually takes time and thinking. ill be the first to admit my lack of motivation to study the scripture vs. praying or worshipping. while they are all important, his word is so rich and full of wisdom that we are missing the basis and foundation of our faith. why do we believe what we do? not just because we feel him or see him, but because we hold onto his truth.
"so that we may no longer be children, tossed to and fro by the waves and carried about by every wind of doctrine, by human cunning, by craftiness in deceitful schemes. Rather, speaking the truth in love, we are to grow up in every way into him who is the head, into Christ, from whom the whole body, joined and held together by every joint with which it is equipped, when each part is working properly, makes the body grow so that it builds itself up in love."
ephesians 4:14-16
"the sooner rather than later" unfortunately has nothing to do with me. The ball my friend is in your court... do with it what you will. Not mentioning star bucks made my post sound better... so don't judge. I do it for my fans!
Babe, it doesn't take me going to Cambodia to confirm I want to spend the rest of my life with you. :)
I just heard that the Glorious Unseen is playing tomorrow at Ethos... how sad is that?
I did just go see Ray lamontagne the other night... and I went to a greek orthodox service this saturday... they were celebrating the Arc Angels.
Guess wich one I enjoyed more... Just kidding... sort of.
it's difficult to comprehend that jesus christ would create beings with no other choice but to exist, die, and then go to hell. it seems irresponsible and sadistic.
see romans 9
it's also difficult to relate the church, or myself, to gomer without accepting the fact that it is god who truly pursues us...we are whorish and sinful on our own.
see hosea
i lean towards the former. but also the latter. who knows?
can there be love without choice?
what is the difference between love and rape? yes.
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